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Joaquin Phoenix and Todd Phillips weigh in

Decisions made at the end of Joker: Folie in Deux are undoubtedly the main reasons why the film is so polarizing. While some find it fascinating and insightful, many others find it maddening and revolting. The two people who love the ending, however, are the film’s writer and director Todd Phillips and its star Joaquin Phoenix, and in a new interview, the two spoke at length about the ending.

Speaking to IGN, Phillips and Phoenix discussed Arthur’s choice to leave the Joker—and the fact that he’s dying, with the person who killed him. Let’s start with the idea of ​​what these movies were about in a big sense, as you will read, you talk to the person who kills Arthur at the end of the movie.

“One of the things people didn’t understand about the first movie was, ‘I don’t understand it.’ He visits Bruce Wayne and is 30 years older than Bruce Wayne. What kind of geriatric Joker are we going to be fighting in the future?’” Phillips said. “I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the script for the first movie. The first movie is called The Joker. It is not called The Jokerit is called The Joker. And the first film under the script was always ‘The origin story.’ You never said ‘ORIGIN STORY.’ There was this idea that maybe this isn’t The Joker. Perhaps this is the inspiration for the Joker. So, at the end of this movie, what you’re left with is ‘Wait, what’s that thing going on behind him? Is this the person?’”

Well, we think it makes sense. It is also consistent with Phillips’ view of Arthur’s mind at the end of the film just before he is killed. “I think Arthur found peace with this idea, with the struggle that it’s okay to be yourself,” Phillips said. “And that’s what he always struggles with, you know what I mean? I like to think that he died as peacefully as he was. The child says to him, ‘Do you want to hear a joke?’ And though he thinks maybe it is [Lee waiting to visit him] down. We don’t even know what’s down there, but that hope that Arthur has, is still in him. You’re like, ‘Yeah, yeah, right’ because you know that feeling of wanting to make someone laugh. So you give the child that time, right? It’s obviously bad because, again, everything goes wrong for Arthur, but I always think that’s a good moment when it feels like Arthur still has hope.”

Phoenix echoed those sentiments. “There’s warmth in that scene, which is great,” said the Oscar winner. “That’s all I thought I wanted, here’s this young man telling me a joke and he’s afraid to tell me a joke, I know he’s afraid, and I’m going to hear it. And a great setup. “

So, basically, Phillips says the films are about a man who goes on a journey to find himself, eventually finds himself, and dies in the process. Then, along the way, he inspires others to take his personality to the next level and, well, we’ll see where it goes from there.

If you’d like to read more from Phillips and Phoenix, head over to IGN. Joker: Folie in Deux now in the theater.

Looking for more io9 news? Check out when you can expect the latest Marvel, Star Wars, and Star Trek releases, what’s next for the DC Universe in film and TV, and everything you need to know about the future of Doctor Who.


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