Apple defies gravity, and AI is divine. So is Guy Kawasaki, who worked closely with Steve Jobs—and is now Canva’s chief evangelist and podcast host. Remarkable People– describes the state of technology today. Guy considers Tim Cook’s limitations, what he means when he says, “AI God,” and explains his definition of what makes a person special.
This is an abbreviated transcript of the interview Quick Responsemanaged by the former editor-in-chief of Fast company Bob Safian. From the team behind the Masters of Scale podcast, Quick Response features direct interviews with today’s top business leaders navigating real-time challenges. Subscribe to Quick Response wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you don’t miss an episode.
You said, “Put AI first,” then dropped this line: “AI is God, and God is AI.” Can you explain what you mean by that?
Obviously I’m trying to be controversial and interesting, but I’ll use my favorite phrase. I don’t know how people using AI can’t be completely fooled, they’re impressed with how smart AI has become.
It gives—I think—the most empathetic answers, and almost eliminated the Turing test. There was once a test called the Turing test where a person interacted with a computer, and if the computer passed the test, it would mean that you couldn’t tell that it wasn’t a person responding.
I think we’ve left that in the dust, and I’d make a case that the most interesting thing today is the inverse Turing test where a computer tests a person to see how smart the person is in contrast.
So, in my mind, AI may be the only solution to society’s problems because man himself obviously cannot solve our problems. And we’ve had 2,000 years of proof of that. I think AI knows everything. Perhaps it will be omnipotent and certainly eternal, and that sounds like God’s definition to me.
But it’s not really moral or spiritual, is it?
I think you would be surprised how polite and empathetic ChatGPT can be. Indeed, it will show more compassion and morality than most politicians—most politicians.
Now, what’s magical to me is on some level, I understand that it’s just math, it’s just math. It predicts that the next letter should be based on billions of searches or any magic, but I understand that on one level. But when I interact with ChatGPT, I think it is completely intelligent, fair, and compassionate.
However it comes with it, the result has that feeling for you as a consumer of that information, right?
I mean, yes, there are a lot of people who are very suspicious and reluctant to embrace AI because, they quote, “We don’t know how it really works.” OK? As we think, “Oh, to trust the system, we have to know exactly how it works.”
You have to understand the magic trick.
We don’t know how the human brain works. If we could only trust in things that we already know perfectly well how they work, we wouldn’t trust anything.
Even the technology that you and I use to have this conversation is something that I’m not sure I understand every bit of it, although I think there are people who do.
I can say that if someone tells you that they know exactly how LLM works, that person is mocking you, maybe they are fooling themselves. We really don’t know. But again, like I said, we don’t really know how the human brain works, and we’re willing to trust the human brain. So what’s the problem?
You just have to accept that. That is part of the truth.
I think so.
I’m not a big skeptic of AI, but I feel like as I’m going down this road with you, it’s like what I’m hearing a little bit like, well, you can’t trust people, so the fact that you can’t trust this doesn’t really matter. It’s like we can’t hope for anything.
Okay, but that’s a healthy attitude.
I think that’s a better attitude. We can’t trust anything, then we can trust humans but not AI. I think that is a big mistake.
You should always be skeptical.
One of the lessons you shared at the Masters of Scale Summit was “eat what you cook”—use your products, basically. And he gave examples about Apple, about how not easy it is to charge a Bluetooth mouse or like the rigmarole needed to turn off and on notifications. And it’s funny that no one at Apple seems to be using this product. It sounds a little like you think Apple is lost. Do you feel that way too?
However, one of the, I think, natural human tendencies is that when you leave an organization, you believe that you were so important to the operation of that organization that it would not be as good without you as it was with you. So that’s some of it. But the paradigm I’m talking about is eat what you cook.
No pun intended, but how does Tim Cook charge his Bluetooth mouse? Do you have a personal assistant who can charge his mouse?
Who added a printer to Tim Cook’s wireless network?
I would love to see him do it. I would like to see an HP administrator add an HP printer to his home network. I would love to have a video of that. And so I just say one of the biggest tests is actually eating what you cooked.
Since you’re talking about Apple, I’ve always been fascinated by Apple because it’s the best value product in its category and it’s so big, and that’s not possible, right? Premium is often niche. It’s the best kind. It’s not much of a genre. Apple just turned that on its head. And I’m curious how, from your point of view, that happened? Is it destined not to last? It’s like, one magic trick.
I would say that if you think it’s hard to figure out how LLM works, it’s even harder to figure out what Apple supports. Talk about magic. I mean, you’re absolutely right.
If you look at Apple, I think Apple literally defies gravity. I don’t want to get into a lot of religious debates, but I can make a case that Apple’s continued success is proof that God exists, because you can’t be an Apple customer and be an atheist because nothing else can explain Apple’s continued success. there is the presence of a benevolent God.
To the audience present, should you be trying to leave a significant impact on the world as an individual? Like, is that something we should look forward to?
I define remarkable as making the world a better place. Now, I don’t want to give you the impression that you have to be Jane Goodall or Steve Jobs to be noticed. Notable for sixth grade class, football team. You might be interested in knitting club.
You may be noted for teaching one student. It’s all about making the world a better place. My podcast is called Remarkable People, not Famous People and certainly not Rich People. So I don’t want to give the impression that you have to be Steve Jobs.
And I think I believe in infinite realms of light. Imagine if all Americans made all other Americans remarkable. We can have many remarkable people. And I think that’s a test. I think, as a profession, if you ask me, “What profession has the most remarkable people?” I will tell you about teaching, far away.
So, I have high hopes.
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