Angela Merkel on Putin, Trump and protecting his legacy

The former Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, was once described as the most powerful woman in the world. Here he talks to the BBC’s Katya Adler about Ukraine, Vladimir Putin’s nuclear threat – and his handling of Donald Trump.

Angela Merkel led Germany for 16 years. He was there during the financial crisis, the 2015 migrant crisis and, notably, the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Was he too soft in Moscow? Too late to help Kyiv? If he had not blocked Ukraine’s Nato membership in 2008, would there be a war now?

On Monday, defense ministers from the UK, France, Germany, Poland and Italy met to discuss the issue the deteriorating situation along the lines of Ukraine.

But speaking to the BBC in Berlin, Mrs Merkel is staunch in her defense of her time in office.

He says he believes the war in Ukraine would have started sooner and would have been much worse, if Kyiv had started the path to NATO membership in 2008.

“We would have seen military conflict before. It was clear to me that President Putin was not going to stand idly by and watch Ukraine join NATO.

“And at that time, Ukraine as a country certainly would not be as good as it was in February 2022.”

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky disagrees.

He describes Mrs Merkel’s decision on Nato, supported by former French President Nicolas Sarkozy, as a clear “miscommunication” that emboldened Russia.

In a rare interview since she resigned from politics three years ago, Mrs Merkel expressed concern about Vladimir Putin’s renewed threats to use nuclear weapons.

The two leaders have known each other well for twenty years.

“We must do everything possible to prevent the use of nuclear weapons,” said the former German Chancellor.

“Thank you, China also spoke about this a long time ago. We should not be paralyzed by fear, but we should also admit that Russia is the biggest country, or next to the US, one of the two biggest nuclear countries in the world.

“The power was terrifying.”

Despite enjoying high popularity ratings during most of her time in office, Mrs Merkel now finds herself on the defensive.

He recently published his autobiography, Freedom. And the timing is interesting.

He says he has done everything in his power to ensure peaceful ways of working with Russia.

In fact, Mr Putin launched his all-out attack on Ukraine just months after leaving office.

This has led Europe to reconsider energy policies, relations with Russia and immigration policies that were common under Mrs. Merkel.

When he was leading the largest European economy, he was the prime minister of the European Union, Matteo Renzi, he said, the leader of the European Union.

“When do you remember? [former US Secretary of State] Henry Kissinger used to say ‘what is Europe’s phone number?’,”My answer was: clearly, Angela Merkel’s mobile number.”

He adds that when judging Merkel’s legacy – over Russia and beyond – it is important to remember the norms of the time.

“One cannot attack Angela for relations with Russia,” he said.

“In 2005, 2006 [they] it was everyone’s goal in Europe, not just Angela Merkel’s goal. “

Under Mrs Merkel, Germany and its large power-hungry industries became dependent on Moscow. Germany is building two gas pipelines directly connected to Russia.

President Zelensky described that cheap gas as a geopolitical tool of the Kremlin.

Mrs Merkel tells the BBC that she had two motives for the pipeline: German business interests but also to maintain peaceful relations with Russia.

Some EU and NATO members in eastern Europe strongly disagree with him.

Polish MP Radoslaw Fogiel said German gas money is filling Russia’s war chest – which is being used to fund the invasion of Ukraine.

Mrs. Merkel insists that she tried to stop Russia’s invasion of Ukraine using diplomacy and negotiations, which – she admits – ultimately failed.

And German industry has been equally hit by Russian energy sanctions. Forced to look to other suppliers, the country now buys expensive LNG. Businesses say they are crippled by the cost.

Sadly, a new era in Europe’s relations with Russia began after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Mrs Merkel said.

The 70-year-old now finds himself having to protect his legacy elsewhere.

The migration crisis of 2015, when he opened Germany’s doors to more than a million asylum seekers, was perhaps the defining moment of his time in office.

It was hated by some, praised by others.

US President Barack Obama praised him as a courageous and ethical leader.

But critics accused him of inspiring Germany’s Alternative for Germany (AfD) party at the time.

It is now polling comfortably in second place in German public opinion polls, ahead of a snap general election early next year.

The AfD’s main political appeal: a strong anti-immigrant message.

Angela Merkel admits that the AfD has made huge gains, but makes no apologies for her political decisions.

Regarding suggestions that her policies in 2015 helped fuel anti-immigration and far-right groups elsewhere, including the Netherlands, Poland and France, after trying to impose immigration quotas across the EU, Mrs Merkel says she cannot be held responsible. all of Europe.

The only way to fight the right is to stop illegal immigration, he says.

He asks European leaders to invest more money in African countries to improve the quality of living there, so that fewer people are tempted to leave their homes.

But with Europe’s economy faltering, and voters worried about the cost of living, governments say they have little money to spare.

Angela Merkel appeared to put her country and its economic interests first when it came to buying Russian energy or during the euro crisis – when southern EU countries accused her of pressuring them with measures to rescue German banks and businesses.

But even at home in Germany, he is now accused of “managing” successive crises and failing to implement far-reaching, perhaps painful reforms for his country and the EU.

Germany is now called by some the “sick man of Europe”.

Once a global export powerhouse, its economy is beyond recession.

Voters complained that he failed to invest in roads, railways and digitalization, in order to maintain a balanced budget.

Under Angela Merkel, Germany has not only relied on Russia for energy, but also on China and the US for trade. Those decisions did not last long.

Donald Trump is threatening to impose tariffs on imports when he returns to the White House in January.

Mrs Merkel has some thoughts for Europe’s nervous leaders facing Trump 2.0.

His first term in office was marked by anger in Europe, particularly Germany, over low defense spending and the trade deficit. Those problems with Europe have not changed.

What are Merkel’s tips for managing him?

“It’s very important to know what your priorities are, to present them clearly and not be afraid, because Donald Trump can go public,” she said.

“You express yourself clearly. And when you do, there’s mutual respect. That was my experience anyway.”

But European leaders facing the US, China, and Russia, are afraid – more so than under Angela Merkel.

The economy is sluggish, voters are unhappy, traditional politics are under pressure from the far right and the far left.

China and Russia are very powerful, the West is weak in the world.

Wars are raging in the Middle East and Europe, with Donald Trump seemingly unconcerned about strengthening European security.

Maybe that’s why Angela Merkel says that, these days, when world leaders don’t usually call her for advice, she happily responds.

But when I ask if he remembers all that power and politics, his quick answer is: “No, not at all.”

In the UK, you can watch Katya Adler’s full interview with Angela Merkel at 19:00 GMT on BBC Two and iPlayer.